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Post by argy on Jun 19, 2021 19:20:05 GMT -5
There has been a fair bit of discussion about homosexuality in different threads of this forum. Several Catholics have called it "abominable", "intrinsically disordered", etc..
Here is an article about a gay priest who worked for many years in the Vatican.
Lepore, the subject of the article, estimates that 80 per cent of the Vatican staff are gay. This is no revelation, there are myriad accounts from "insiders" that reflect the same thing.
This would not be controversial if it wasn't for the hypocrisy of the practising homosexuals within the Vatican. They engage in gay sex, fall in love and have affairs with fellow priests and bishops. They then sit in judgement of others outside the church, denouncing sex outside marriage, ruling on women's reproductive rights and pronouncing homosexuality as an abomination and intrinsically disordered.
What do the "holier than thou" religious folk like wale64 and his ilk on this forum think about this?
Do you understand how such hypocrisy creates a strong negative perception of the church within the wider community.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 18:15:38 GMT -5
That's just unadulterated gibberish. My partner and I existed in the normal, Einsteinian, four dimensional, real world.a homosexual relationship is not normal and is abnormal in a normal world That little mess of words does nothing to alter the fact that you are mistaken when you imply that I lack brilliance. The aforementioned memberships and patents are a recognition of a level of brilliance that is well above average.Einstein didn't need certification by groups, his work certified itself.YOUR content certifies you are at least off the wall. Nietzsche, for example, was considered intelligent BUT was also clinically insane. |
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Post by argy on Jun 22, 2021 18:39:54 GMT -5
That's just unadulterated gibberish. My partner and I existed in the normal, Einsteinian, four dimensional, real world.a homosexual relationship is not normal and is abnormal in a normal world That little mess of words does nothing to alter the fact that you are mistaken when you imply that I lack brilliance. The aforementioned memberships and patents are a recognition of a level of brilliance that is well above average.Einstein didn't need certification by groups, his work certified itself.YOUR content certifies you are at least off the wall. Nietzsche, for example, was considered intelligent BUT was also clinically insane.
I think you must live your life in a fantasy land. In the real world homosexuality is natural, a normal part of nature.
My guess, based on your unrelenting anger, is that Bogus0Pomp lives in a much more harmonious relationship with his partner than you do yours. Perhaps you are jealous of his contentment?
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Post by burke on Jun 22, 2021 18:40:07 GMT -5
> When the government gets in a negative financial position OR decides they don't have enough money and take MORE from you or decide to cut services, come back and chat it up.
We have been doing this for 50 years and while services have been adjusted, some cut back and some added, we still have universal healthcare at a very reasonable price.
> I didn't cite Acts 4:12
Reread your post of 5 hours ago, you wrote: "The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12).
> This does NOT say that. It states Jesus will be with his Church until the end of the age. Nothing in THIS scripture states as you stated here.
Okay, what do you believe Jesus meant when he said that?
> we KNOW about the laying on of hands but NOTHING of Pope specifically as you stated in your earlier post!
Okay, where does the ultimate authority, given Jesus' promise, rest in your understanding?
We have been doing this for 50 years and while services have been adjusted, some cut back and some added, we still have universal healthcare at a very reasonable price. You say you are "Student" of history, then you should KNOW that once something is instituted , it doesn't go back or withdraws. The ONLY direction is always UP: taxes, Programs etc. Now YOU may not have experienced the downturn....YET but it does come as HISTORY has shown that locally and in many countries (Great depression, recession n 2008, etc). Maybe YOU never are caught in that down turn and hopefully not, BUT when those who DO get caught in it where the government MUST make drastic cuts or DRASTICALLY increase costs and taxes for the SANE services? What do you tell your Grandchildren or on down the line?
Reread your post of 5 hours ago, you wrote: "The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). CORRECT and there is NO connection to being saved by the NAME of Jesus and The Pope as earthly representative. Let's take ONE verse from scripture:
Luke 10:17 ESV
The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” Notice the GROUP said of stating IN the name of Jesus. it means Jesus bestowed his authority on THEM, not a group represented by ONE person speaking Jesus name. Speaking in Jesus name means invoking HIS SPIRIT in the same manner Jesus through his Spirit descended on the followers at Pentecost to EMPOWER THEM ( plural) to continue HIS work IN HIS NAME, through the power of the Spirit. Peter is the LEADER of this group and will have other LEADERS succeed him.....to LEAD the CHURCH which is endowed by the Spirit. CAN YOU PRODUCE ANY SCRIPTURAL VERSE saying something CLOSE to Peter you will represent me on earth? The Church is to be the guiding force, with a LEADER for sure, but not as you stated and cant support.
1 Timothy 3:15 RSV
15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
> This does NOT say that. It states Jesus will be with his Church until the end of the age. Nothing in THIS scripture states as you stated here.
Okay, what do you believe Jesus meant when he said that?
It means that Jesus, Through the Spirit will remain overlooking and overseeing the Church keeping Jesus' promise of sending The Helper, the comforter to empower his Apostles (plural) and successors to continue to , as Jesus said, do GREATER WORKS than Jesus.
> you should KNOW that once something is instituted , it doesn't go back or withdraws. The ONLY direction is always UP: taxes, Programs etc.Maybe YOU never are caught in that down turn and hopefully not, BUT when those who DO get caught in it where the government MUST make drastic cuts or DRASTICALLY increase costs and taxes for the SANE services? What do you tell your Grandchildren or on down the line?
First of all, services are adjusted all the time, some added, some reviewed and dropped. As you seem to forget our two taxation rates are similar. If we were paying the federal government a much higher percentage than you, then you would have a point, but we are not. We do pay more in sales taxes, but in that case I am free to choose to buy or not by a taxable item.
As for the recession of 2008, our healthcare system was not affected. The services remained the same. Now in the pandemic some services were delayed, but not because of costs. Sorry, you are flogging a dead horse. We are happier and healthier than the average American and while we rail against our governments we are confident that when the chips are down they will try to do what is best for us. Their pandemic response is proof of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 15:40:58 GMT -5
I think you must live your life in a fantasy land. In the real world homosexuality is natural, a normal part of nature. No it is an anomaly or mutation IN nature.
My guess, based on your unrelenting anger, is that Bogus0Pomp lives in a much more harmonious relationship with his partner than you do yours. Perhaps you are jealous of his contentment? How much more stupid can you get? I guess we'll find out. You prove my point each time as YOU need to willfully mischaracterize legitimate disapproval of homosexuality because YOU cant contend with the fact that there exist MUCH legitimate disapproval. Historically, culturally, biblically , biologically and by many others standards, HOMOSEXUALITY has been, and STILL is,
considered to be a deviation of normal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 15:44:44 GMT -5
We have been doing this for 50 years and while services have been adjusted, some cut back and some added, we still have universal healthcare at a very reasonable price. You say you are "Student" of history, then you should KNOW that once something is instituted , it doesn't go back or withdraws. The ONLY direction is always UP: taxes, Programs etc. Now YOU may not have experienced the downturn....YET but it does come as HISTORY has shown that locally and in many countries (Great depression, recession n 2008, etc). Maybe YOU never are caught in that down turn and hopefully not, BUT when those who DO get caught in it where the government MUST make drastic cuts or DRASTICALLY increase costs and taxes for the SANE services? What do you tell your Grandchildren or on down the line?
Reread your post of 5 hours ago, you wrote: "The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). CORRECT and there is NO connection to being saved by the NAME of Jesus and The Pope as earthly representative. Let's take ONE verse from scripture:
Luke 10:17 ESV
The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” Notice the GROUP said of stating IN the name of Jesus. it means Jesus bestowed his authority on THEM, not a group represented by ONE person speaking Jesus name. Speaking in Jesus name means invoking HIS SPIRIT in the same manner Jesus through his Spirit descended on the followers at Pentecost to EMPOWER THEM ( plural) to continue HIS work IN HIS NAME, through the power of the Spirit. Peter is the LEADER of this group and will have other LEADERS succeed him.....to LEAD the CHURCH which is endowed by the Spirit. CAN YOU PRODUCE ANY SCRIPTURAL VERSE saying something CLOSE to Peter you will represent me on earth? The Church is to be the guiding force, with a LEADER for sure, but not as you stated and cant support.
1 Timothy 3:15 RSV
15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
> This does NOT say that. It states Jesus will be with his Church until the end of the age. Nothing in THIS scripture states as you stated here.
Okay, what do you believe Jesus meant when he said that?
It means that Jesus, Through the Spirit will remain overlooking and overseeing the Church keeping Jesus' promise of sending The Helper, the comforter to empower his Apostles (plural) and successors to continue to , as Jesus said, do GREATER WORKS than Jesus.
> you should KNOW that once something is instituted , it doesn't go back or withdraws. The ONLY direction is always UP: taxes, Programs etc.Maybe YOU never are caught in that down turn and hopefully not, BUT when those who DO get caught in it where the government MUST make drastic cuts or DRASTICALLY increase costs and taxes for the SANE services? What do you tell your Grandchildren or on down the line?
First of all, services are adjusted all the time, some added, some reviewed and dropped. As you seem to forget our two taxation rates are similar. If we were paying the federal government a much higher percentage than you, then you would have a point, but we are not. We do pay more in sales taxes, but in that case I am free to choose to buy or not by a taxable item. On that point we agree but to have a simultaneous income tax AND federal sale tax is a hidden double taxation.
As for the recession of 2008, our healthcare system was not affected. The services remained the same. Now in the pandemic some services were delayed, but not because of costs. Sorry, you are flogging a dead horse. Not really because when services are diminished, cut etc even in an emergency basis, the government never comes back and rebates or cuts your taxes in the same proportion. We are happier and healthier than the average American and while we rail against our governments we are confident that when the chips are down they will try to do what is best for us. Their pandemic response is proof of that.
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Post by argy on Jun 23, 2021 19:10:50 GMT -5
I think you must live your life in a fantasy land. In the real world homosexuality is natural, a normal part of nature. No it is an anomaly or mutation IN nature.
Well, strictly speaking, everything in nature has its origin in a mutation. Even sex.
But the evidence has it that homosexuality is a result of epigenetic changes caused by the mother's stress levels and health during pregnancy, plus the effects of previous pregnancies. So it very much has a firm basis in nature.
That's an oxymoron. "Legitimate disapproval of homosexuality" is like talking about "legitimate disapproval of heterosexuality". It doesn't make much sense. Homosexuality just "is". Just as the sun rises every morning, homosexuality exists. It's part of nature.
That's a bad argument. There have certainly been cultural prejudices against homosexuality (heck, we're just emerging from one now), but that does not mean prejudice is justifiable. To mount an argument (as I believe you are trying to) that homosexuality is wrong because it has been considered wrong in the past would be like arguing that slavery is okay because it was considered okay in the past.
We have evolved as a culture to the point that we no longer consider slavery to be morally acceptable. And we have also evolved to the point were we understand that it is morally wrong to consider homosexuality to be deviant or "intrinsically disordered".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 19:38:14 GMT -5
Well, strictly speaking, everything in nature has its origin in a mutation. Even sex. NONSENSE.
But the evidence has it that homosexuality is a result of epigenetic changes caused by the mother's stress levels and health during pregnancy, plus the effects of previous pregnancies. So it very much has a firm basis in nature. Pseudo science by advocates of homosexuality. Some of the participants in the studies also homosexuals with an agenda.
That's an oxymoron. "Legitimate disapproval of homosexuality" is like talking about "legitimate disapproval of heterosexuality". It doesn't make much sense. Only because YOU arw caught in the attempt to legitimize the illegitimate. Homosexuality just "is". Just as the sun rises every morning, homosexuality exists. It's part of nature. No it's not , it is a defect in the natural order.
That's a bad argument. There have certainly been cultural prejudices against homosexuality (heck, we're just emerging from one now), but that does not mean prejudice is justifiable. A legitimate disapproval is NOT a "cultural predjudice" To mount an argument (as I believe you are trying to) that homosexuality is wrong because it has been considered wrong in the past would be like arguing that slavery is okay because it was considered okay in the past. Two incomparable topics.
We have evolved as a culture to the point that we no longer consider slavery to be morally acceptable. we didn't evolve in that. we as a people simply adjusted and corrected ourselves around a MORAL ABSOLUTE. And we have also evolved to the point were we understand that it is morally wrong to consider homosexuality to be deviant or "intrinsically disordered". No, some have distorted to make it seem as such.
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Post by argy on Jun 24, 2021 2:12:07 GMT -5
Well, strictly speaking, everything in nature has its origin in a mutation. Even sex. NONSENSE.
Don't tell me you're a young earth creationist!!
Really?
Did you just pull that out of your crack, or do you have evidence to back yourself?
Okay, time to back up your claims, champ.
Can you provide even one legitimate, peer reviewed science publication that concludes homosexuality is a "defect in the natural order"?
The topic is the right/wrong of homosexuality. I pointed out that it would be a logical error to claim it is bad because of attitudes in the past. I used slavery as an example to demonstrate WHY such an argument is logically unsound.
I have no idea what that means. What is the difference between "adjusted and corrected" and "evolved" in the context of this discussion?
I agree. "Some" (like you) have distorted homosexuality to make it seem deviant or "intrinsically disordered".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 5:53:08 GMT -5
Don't tell me you're a young earth creationist!!
Really?
Did you just pull that out of your crack, or do you have evidence to back yourself? "..There is a long tradition dating back to Galileo — and beyond, to Democritus — of scientific heresy suddenly becoming orthodoxy, as “settled” doctrines cannot stand the light of free discussion, critique, and investigation.
Despite the Western inductive method and freedom of expression, however, human nature remains tribal. Scientists, like everyone else, find comfort in what is familiar, orthodox, and shared by their peers. Often they have invested lives and careers in ensuring that status-quo theories become unquestioned. They can be deeply suspicious of what is not institutionalized, and on occasion wildly intolerant of the nonconventional..." Okay, time to back up your claims, champ. It is normal and natural for a man and woman to be attracted to each other AND in love.
Biology has designed them for that in the first place. Most understand that, some don't. Each gender is programmed to be attracted to the OPPOSITE sex for the purposes of procreating for the species to survive.
An attraction to the SAME sex would then be a defect in that programming.
If you are a propponent of evolution then you cannot be a supporter of homosexuality as it is in contradiction to evolutionary purposes.
Can you provide even one legitimate, peer reviewed science publication that concludes homosexuality is a "defect in the natural order"? Not necessary. " ..nothing scientific is ever quite settled. Scientists debate the proper protocols through still more study and investigation in the arena of empirical give-and-take..."
The topic is the right/wrong of homosexuality. I pointed out that it would be a logical error to claim it is bad because of attitudes in the past. I used slavery as an example to demonstrate WHY such an argument is logically unsound. BAD example. Two different things. Slavery was forced servitude based on the color of one's skin, being black which is a natural and normal condition. Homosexuality is an abnormal condition that many are unjustifiably trying to make normal.
I have no idea what that means. What is the difference between "adjusted and corrected" and "evolved" in the context of this discussion? evolved as YOU use means a gradual moving towards something YOU think should have been arrived at initially. adjusted and corrected ourselves means that when you find something is ABSOLUTELY correct you immediately discard the faulty premise and conclusion and adapt to the CORRECT answer.
I agree. "Some" (like you) have distorted homosexuality to make it seem deviant or "intrinsically disordered". No , it has not been as homosexuality has been properly identified and characterized as it exists abnormally. your attempt at reversal fails because your statement is neither equal or valid to the original.
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Post by argy on Jun 24, 2021 7:36:40 GMT -5
Don't tell me you're a young earth creationist!!
Really?
Did you just pull that out of your crack, or do you have evidence to back yourself? ...
Despite the Western inductive method and freedom of expression, however, human nature remains tribal. Scientists, like everyone else, find comfort in what is familiar, orthodox, and shared by their peers. Often they have invested lives and careers in ensuring that status-quo theories become unquestioned. They can be deeply suspicious of what is not institutionalized, and on occasion wildly intolerant of the nonconventional..."
Well, I never! If that's evidence, then my aunt is my uncle.
It's as if you can't see that the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I take that as a no.
Are you saying homosexuals have a choice? If so, the evidence is against you.
Wrong.
In so many ways, that's wrong.
Wow! What a word salad!
Can you put that into words that the average person might understand?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 16:04:51 GMT -5
Well, I never! If that's evidence, then my aunt is my uncle. This means something within your mind!
It's as if you can't see that the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Its exactly that you cant see they ARE!
I take that as a no. You take it however you like BUT it will not change homosexuality into being legitimate because you reject reality!
Are you saying homosexuals have a choice? If so, the evidence is against you. No, homosexuals haven't a choice just like other abnormalities occur to some who are born.
Wrong. based on....?
In so many ways, that's wrong. based on....?
Wow! What a word salad!
Can you put that into words that the average person might understand? The AVERAGE person DOES understand it's just that YOU are so much BELOW average!
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Post by Bogus0Pomp on Jun 25, 2021 12:37:53 GMT -5
Wow! What a word salad! Can you put that into words that the average person might understand?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 15:15:05 GMT -5
Wow! What a word salad! Can you put that into words that the average person might understand?
which means its not going to be possible to render your words into something understandable. |
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Post by Bogus0Pomp on Jun 25, 2021 15:35:44 GMT -5
I don't think that is possible to render gibberish into something that is understandable by any person.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 15:58:06 GMT -5
I don't think that is possible to render gibberish into something that is understandable by any person.
TRANSLATION " I do not accept ANY critiques or criticism"- BUGGERPUMPED
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